MetalGeek : Code, Metal and Cleverness

For more info on working with tubing, you might want to check out this Ron Covell video, available for rent here:

technicalvideorental.com/rental_24.html

or for sale here:

Covell.biz

WOW!! I have a JD^2 tubing bender and I've yet to complete some of the bends mentioned here. Very nicely done and explained.

Cheers,
Ed T.

Great Article, One question; I have heard that if a pipe is filled with sand prior to bending it will help prevent kinks. Any truth to this?

Thanks,

Gary D.

On 5/7/05 4:09 PM, Gary D. wrote:

>Great Article,

Thanks!

>One question; I have heard that if a pipe is filled with sand prior
>to bending it will help prevent kinks. Any truth to this?

Yeah, I've heard this too. I haven't actually done it with steel, but with PVC pipe that I bent using boiling water. I've worked with a few people who have done the sand method on tight bends with steel pipe, and they say it needs to be packed tight and capped before you bend it. If you're going to heat it, you'll want to drill some small holes in the caps so you don't end up with a pipe bomb or a rocket.

Darn nice Hal! Of course, it takes true skill, talent and art to do it well (and you have them all). Not just jigs and fixtures.

Your PITA pal,

Derek

Well done article.I was thinking of buying an hydraulic pipe bender but after reading this I have decided to try some of your methods to bend tubing for making the front suspension for the conversion of an ATC(three wheeler) to an ATV(four wheeler). Thanks for a job well done.

hello, great website...I need some info...heres my stock...54"x 6.25"x .104...I need to make a beam (C-CHANNEL [ ) THE OUTSIDE DIM. HAS TO BE 3" FROM THE CENTER OF MATERIAL..WHAT DIM. WOLD BE MY BEND LINE? I USE TO HAVE THE FORMULA...CAN NOT FIND IT....THANKS MIKE R. MICHIGAN

THE BEAM IS 54" IN LENGTH

hello about using sand to bend pipe....use only baked or dryed sand....if not the moisture will expand and explode the pipe!!!

thanks, that chart has saved a lot of time , 'caus before this i use to do it with trial and error method. i jus wana know how to bend pipes of 18mm dia or metal flats of 6mm thick in large smooth curves.

Hi Glenn,

Yeah, trial and error is how I started. I don't know about metric pipe sizes and strength, but I imagine that you could just convert the dimensions and get close to what you're looking for. Close is usually close enough. If you do come up with some data, I'd be happy to post it here.

As far as I can tell (by poking around on the web) nominal 18mm pipe is the same as nominal 5/8" pipe. Of course I've never seen 5/8" pipe, and I can't find it in any catalog or book I've seen, so I don't know how big it really is.

6mm flats would be real close to 1/4". You have to overbend that quite a bit. It's also possible you'd run into some irregularities in how much it springs back, especially if it's hot rolled. Although it's not hard to tweak it by hand.

Great ideas - and, like most really good ideas, blatantly obvious once someone tells you....thanks...will be now able to FINALLY make my shower curtain over the round spa bath.....

Hello Hal,
First exellent page, you should be a writer. I have a question for you, I have a custome recliner chair design and I am not sure wheather to use wood or steel piping. Myself I think piping would last longer and be sturdier. What do you think?

>First exellent page, you should be a writer.

Thanks!

>I have a custome recliner chair design and I am not sure wheather to
>use wood or steel piping. Myself I think piping would last longer
>and be sturdier. What do you think?

Well, I'm no expert. I've only made a few chairs, and the only one worth mentioning was supported by a very heavy-walled 1-1/2" steel tube wishbone.

Steel can certainly be long lasting, as long as it's designed and welded properly. Otherwise, you could get metal fatigue and end up sitting on the floor. I don't really have an idea about how you might size the tube or pipe, except perhaps to go look at a recliner that's similar to what you're thinking about and imitate it. And keep in mind that most commercial furniture is designed to be just barely strong enough to last a couple of years at the most.

very good page!!!

Hi, yes, this is a great website.
I'm trying to figure out how to make some 3" radius bends (without kinking) using 1/2 copper water pipe. I've heard mention of a low melting point metal called ceraben (I think this is how it's spelled) but I can't find a source for it. Do you know where I could purchase some?

Thanks
Tony Tammer
S.F. Bay Area

Hi Tony,

No, I don't know anything about the metal you mentioned. It might be possible to bend copper like this, but it would take some pretty specialized equipment. You might try the folks at R&B Wagner (rbwagner.com) to see what they know.

Or you could try solder. It would be a way to test if the idea even worked.

Good luck

I agree with the others, this is a great resource.

Does anyone have any experience of the degree of overbend required for 316 stainless steel pipe?

I have to do quite a few bends in 1.25" nominal bore 316 schedule 40 for the boat I've built. (It's built more like a battleship than the old sailing yacht 'Spray' that it's supposed to resemble. :)

Hey Thanks for having this site. Very useful tips.

HI Glenn, thanks for sharing your knowHow. You gave me the will to go forward with my projects.

I will be using 1 inch SS (316) tubing with a wall thickness of 1/32 for a bend radius of 8 to 10 inches. Do you have any recommendations before I go ahead ??

great site for learning. I did learn a thing or 2 or 3 or 4!!!

stumbled upon your site...
a few further tips.
For Aluminum!
If you're bending aluminum your best luck for bending is a 6061T6 or softer as the harder the aluminum the more likely it will crack or break during bending... a mandrel is usually needed also... I've never tried sand... it kinda scares me actually.
I have found a 3/4" to 1" tube to be the largest most favorable tube diameter size to bend... even then, a 1" tube may need to be mandrel bent.
Aluminum ages on the shelf too, it gets stale like potatoe chips, and it's hardness character changes. So you typically need fresh soft aluminum when bending radiuses that are pushing the limits of the tube.
Glenn has done an awesome job of outlining how to bend metal tube, my only further warning is that bending metal/aluminum tube is a bit of an art and Glenn makes it sound pretty straight forward, where I have screwed many pieces of metal before finally getting it right.
You also want to bend metal cold as when it is hot, yes it will bend real easy but, heating up hot all across the area you need a radius can be tricky and hot spots are typical... so you end up causing a kink at the hottest spot and therefore not an even bend as wished and as designed with the jig.
I do jeep accessories and the tube wall thicknesses are heavier than light duty stuff like muffler tubes, so remember also, heavier wall thicknesses make it a whole new world... and mandrel bending for large diameter tube may be necessary (sp?).

Good website.

Ive been using sand for about 20 plus years, it is an old school technique, and is low tech, but just the same, if you do it right, will produce mandril quality bends, even better? if it is mastered. and you can bend contenuous complex bends this way, all along the stick.

Reason that it works is that it translates energy to the opposite side, you push on the bottom, you push on the top too.

As long as the sides are supported, it works very well.

I have pushed this concept to the extreame, and never had an "expolosion." though I once tore the seams a few times, and the packed sand mearly poured out as soon as the steel gave way.

once I rotated the seam to the inside of the radious, tearing ceased.

one trick is to pack the sand very very tight, using very fine sand. but, it is very time consuming, as drying the sand, screening the sand then packing it

Hey thanks for this website. It really helps to know you don't have to have all those expensive tools to bend and shape metal.

Hal -

I just wanted to thank you for keeping this information posted and maintaining it - your tips, insight, and experience go a long way in helping others (mainly myself) work this difficult medium with ease. Thanks again.

I tried to find a shop that would bend a cast iron putter neck from about 70 degrees to 78 degrees. they said it sould break. I thought that some heat would help to protect it from breaking. Could I try it or should I try to find a fabricator that might do it for me?

Hi Bill,

My first inclination is to say it will break no matter what you try. That's if it's really cast iron. I don't see how a "putter neck" (whatever the heck that is) could be cast iron unless this is just an ornamental piece. If it's cast, it's more likely steel, which is a lot more ductile. Cast iron is super brittle. The usual way to get iron for casting is to bust up old radiators with a sledge hammer. It doesn't take much to reduce them to a pile of shards. If the putter neck was cast iron, it would likely go sailing off in the general direction of your ball after a couple of smacks.

One more thing to consider though: If you heat it up, you'll destroy the temper. So it would have to be heat treated again to get it back to where it was. This isn't a topic that's been discussed on my local blacksmith's email list. If you do ever figure it out, you might have a whole new career opportunity.

Are there any golf club smiths out there?

Wow! Great job on the explanations. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch for taking the time to write it all out and provide the photos.

Nelson B.

hi there, great page! fully useful and helping. anyway I was searching the web before finding your page and came unpon a guy who bent some aluminum tubing whit a wood jig just how you did, and to get rid of any deformation he got water inside the tube and freezed it with dry ice to work like the sand mentioned on the previous question. Do you think this would work for 1" , 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" round tubing and 4" Out Diam. with an 20°-30° bending angle. would that make it less likely to deform?? thanks and im writing from venezuela!

freezed it with dry ice to work like the sand mentioned on the previous question. Do you think this would work for 1" , 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" round tubing and 4" Out Diam. with an 20°-30° bending angle. would that make it less likely to deform?? thanks and im writing from venezuela!

Hi Guillermo,

I have no clue if the dry ice method would work. It sounds like an awful lot of trouble. Making a small radius bend in tubing that size is outside of my expertise. There's a place (rather far from Venezuela) that sells bent tube and pipe elbows that are used to make railings. I'm under the impression that they use a mandrel inside the pipe for this.

http://www.wagnercompanies.com/elbows_and_wall_returns_for_pipe_and_tube.aspx

One other thing about bending aluminum. Try to stay away from 6061 alloy; it's too hard to bend. And if the hardness is still too much, you can anneal it by heating to just under the melting point and then letting it cool as slowly as possible. Sometimes I use a Sharpie marker and scribble on the back side. Once the marks completely dissappear, it's nearly hot enough. But try not to hit the marks directly with a torch, or you'll stop too early.

You could also bend it hot, but that's pretty tricky. If it's too hot, the metal will break apart like clay.

Buena Suerte!

this is great I have some 2" to do all 90` and this could do the trick great idea saves $200-300 for a hydrolicthanks great site

I ahve to bend a metal pipe. It is part of a lowering jack for a cargo trailer. It has lips and is too wide to come out of the hole. Do I need to file this? What tools could I use to bend the metal so it will fit through the holes and come out. I can't any money on this venture. I have some basic tools already. Any ideas?

thanks
stephen

Hi - thanks for all these great tips 'n' tricks.
To those who is looking for a "fill-the-tube" solution without sand, try looking at this site:

http://www.mcp-group.com/alloys/index.html

Low melting-point alloys - 'fusible' alloys - find uses in all sorts of application. Perhaps you need to hold a delicate component of an awkward shape?  Or to bend a tube or section without kinking?  Or you need a fusible safety device?  The 'MCP' range of alloys holds the key to these and many other applications.

Keep up the good spirit ;-)

I am trying to straighten an earls fork from a BMWcycle. the tubing is tapered and ovoid . There are welded joints for the axle and pivot point elbow.
The staight lower section 'un-bent' satisfactorily using the front of my tractor, chain for holding and a cheater bar. The upper section of the unit seems to have a compound bend or twist. I have cut the vertical units apart from the triple tree to work each side alone.
What suggestions do you have for my holding end for a twisting "un-bend" (assuming I get it anchored at the other end).
If you have time email me . I plan to try it soon. Jon

Hi,
I am looking to bend a piece of 2" copper into the shaoe of an "S". I have practiced with pieces of 3/4" and every time it creases. Do you have any hints or advice that might help? Thanks. Great site!

Anyone have any ideas on bending 4 1/2" ID Stainless steel tubing..used for marine exhaust???

For those who are trying to bend pipe: I am a professional steamfitter/pipefitter/weldor of 23 years and an amateur blacksmith.

I installed a modern forced lubrication system on a 1912 vintage powerplant, on the Ocoee River in Tennessee. The pipe was 3/4" and 2" schedule 40, 316L stainless steel. The specifications called for as few welded joints and flanges as possible.

I cold bent nearly every piece of this job with a Greenlee electric conduit bender. It worked very well until trying to bend the 2" to near 70 degrees. At that point, the bender was simply not strong enough to continue the bend. On the 3/4" pipe, there was no problem.

I am also an apprentice instructor at my local union. I have full intention of teaching these kids how to bend large heavy wall carbon steel pipe using the sand/heat/two posts method from many decades ago.

For the really large stainless stuff, I suggest a roll bender.

do you have any info on or about how to make your own square tubing benders capable of bending 3" tubing or anything smaller, with hydraulic assitance

Ive been looking and looking for ways to bend a 1" exaust pipe for a tractor and this is the first place i have been able to find any information thank you.

Hello,
I would like to learn how to bend tubing. Maybe there's a good book (Formula for offset,ect.) you can suggest to me.It can be in english.

Thanks,

Chris from Québec.

Hello am Mr.Bill Edwards of Teleplanoffice&Communication Limited and will like to buy some conduit bender from your company i will be sending them to Ghana in West Africa.what are the price list and and i will be doing alot of project so will like to have a bussiness relationship with you and your company.hopping to hear from you.
Regards,
Mr.Bill Edwards.
Manager Teleplanoffice&Communication.

re sand; I used to work in an oil refinery with lots of straight pipe. The boilermakers used to fill small diameter pipe with sand,cap it and wrap it around a 3- 6 inch pipe to make a cooling or heating coil. They looked machine made. They had lots of heavy equipment so I doubt if they heated it.

I am wanting to make some circles with soft copper tubing (1/4" to 3/4"). Do you have anything in you lineup of jigs that could be used to do this.

Thanks, Rod

Filling metal tube or pipe with sand prior to bending is absolutely a great way to keep the material from crushing during the bend process. A fair amount of heat is necessary...better to use a rosebud to make certain heat is not concentrated in one area only...keep heat ahead of the bend on the pipe or tube. If using seamed tube, make sure seam is on inside of raidius. Can be used with carbon, stainless, aluminum, and brass. Slow process but doeas work very well.

In the mid sixties we bent the tubing for race car bumpers, push bars, tire racks, etc. by taping up one end of the tube and filling it with dry sand from the kids sand box. An old window screen got rid of the trash. The trick is to put about a cup of sand in between each packing until it is full, and tape up the end. We did not apply heat, only lots of muscle. You must use a smooth radius to bend it without collapsing. We used a tree with a fork in it close to the ground. Defineately not high tech, but one of those racecars we built has returned to the track with the original bars bent this way. I still use this method to this day when neccesary.

im making my sons a go kart and the roll bar needs bending now being from Australia we work in metric the stock is 25mm nominal bore x 2.6mm wall would i be able to bend this stock around jigs
thanks Adrian

Hi Adrian,

That looks like what we'd call 1" pipe. It should bend pretty well, but I'm not sure how tight you could go without resorting to the sand method that some have mentioned above. One thing I would do is use a cheater bar, otherwise the tangent of the pipe that you're bending from will be slightly bent also. This always happens to some extent, but it's a little more noticeable with heavier wall thicknesses.

By the way, posting here in the comments isn't the best way to contact me. There's a link for me metalgeek.com/encoded

an other way to bend piping without high cost is to rent the bender.

Loved the article. I am a novice metal worker and am interested in duplicating some of the decorative, light weight metal projects seen at candle stores like Illuminations. The steel rod is small in diameter but the radius of the candle holders varies and its small (i.e. 2" - 12" generally). Your article seems to tackle the larger bends. Is there equipment readily available that a garage hack could add to his inventory that would produce the results I am looking for?

There are almost too many ways to do this to list. The only commercial bender I've bought is a really crappy Harbor Freight one for $50. The dies that come with it are more useful than the bender. I've used a Hossfeld bender and I've seen one made by Di-Acro. They are all useful to a point, but also somewhat limiting.

My thought would be to just play around with the material and see what you can do. Material up to around 1/4" can be easily formed on the horn of an anvil with a hammer. Or with a short piece of pipe clamped in a vise, you can bend rings. Just vise-grip the material to the pipe and away you go. Or attach a couple of bolts to a table for pins...

The best way to get a sense of it is to get your hands dirty and see what happens.

this is what the web should be about, one man sharing his knolage with others. great advice & tips! thanks
wazz

Great article! I experimented with tube bending after I got a quote of $11,000 for bent tubing for a car project. Check out the TwinTech at www.funcar.com.

I'll bookmark your website for reference on future projects.

Thanks, Dave

.re annealing aluminum try marking one side of the part to .be annealed with the edge of a bar of plain laundry soap gently heat the opposite side of the aluminum untill the soap streak turns cholate brown move flame on to next area and repeat allow job to cool . result will be nice .soft alluminum hope you find this tip half asgood as the things ihave learnt from you .thank you

good time
dear sirs,
how can i do bending a seamless steel tube material ASTM A213grade T22 OD 50.8 mm ,thk 6.5mm ?
radius of bend(CLR) is 50.8 mm and degree of bend 180.
that means a U tube with a 2000mm LENGTH OF each leg.
best regards
kheradmand

I have no idea. Find out if someone in your area does rotary bending. Or check out
www.shopwagner.com
and search for item 4691. It's pretty close. Unless they already have the right size die, it would be very expensive to make one for your exact specs.

The info is really good. I play with metal building bbq grills. My dilema is a tank that is 20in diameter, I cut a door lengthwise about 12 x 36. The door does not close snug and the lower end does not follow the curve of the tank leaving a gap along the bottom. I need to bend the bottom of the door, it is 1/8in steel that has been rolled. Any ideas. Thanks! Jim